GENERAL TRADINGQ: How do I start a trade?
A: Contact a member who has something you're willing to trade for. After conversing, agree upon terms (when items will be shipped, how to be shipped, what items, money involved?). Keep in contact with your trader throughout the whole process.
Q: I shipped my item a long time ago, why haven't they received it?
A: When an item is not recieved, there is one of two things going on. One, the person really did receive it but is lying, or two, the package was lost in the mail or is not there yet. At Holelive.com, we have a community of well-known and trusted traders, as well as new traders. We assume everyone here is not immature enough to rip someone off, and that everyone who says they did not recieve really did not receive. A good way to prevent this is to keep all post office receipts, so you can show them to the person saying you really did send the item. If you have sent the item, you have done your part. It is not your fault the post office lost your item. However, on the receiving end it isn't great knowing you didnt' receive your end of the trade. In this case, make sure you wait a long enough period to wait out the package (some packages overseas can take up to three months!!) and contact the sender. A lot of time, the sender will compensate your lost package with something else.
Q: What if I suspect someone is ripping me off?
A: If you have heard of several instances with this trader, email firstname.lastname@example.org. All your email will remain confidential and we will try and investigate for you. If you have had several bad trades with someone, you can also post negative feedback for them on the MessageBoard.
Q: Who should I avoid trading with?
A: Holelive.com tries to report all known bad traders by first and last name. Check out the MessageBoard for trading feedback.
Q: What about good trades? Do those traders get rewarded?
A: Leave positive feedback for the trader on the MessageBoard.
Q: How do I find someone to trust on Holelive.com?
A: Check out the MessageBoard for trading feedback. There are plenty of great traders on holelive.com!
CD BURNINGb>Q: Are there rules for burning cds?
A: Yes. Holelive.com is here to make sure all recordings do not lose quality after being traded over and over again. Please follow these following rules for burning your cd:
+ Burn no faster than 4x (We actually recommend 1x).
+ Burn all discs DAO.
+ Do not write on discs.
+ Include all source information, along with date, artist, and other information.
+ Use high quality discs.
Q: Why should I burn no faster than 4x?
A: Burning at a lower speed means less chance of errors. This is a common rule among most trading communities.
Q: What is DAO?
A: DAO means Disc-At-Once. It is the alternative to burning TAO (Track-At-Once). TAO burns cds with a gap in between tracks (often two seconds). Since these are recordings, and gaps really break tracks up, we ask you burn all discs DAO. This gives a continuous flow of music and in between song gossip, which is really common with Hole shows.
Q: Why can't I write on discs?
A: This is really just an organizational request. Different people organize their bootleg collection differently. By not writing on the disc, it allows the new owner of the disc to do what he or she wants to do with it, whether it's writing on it, labeling it, or keeping it unlabeled.
Q: If I can't write on the disc, how can I tell them apart?
A: Try using a post-it note or a small piece of paper to tell them apart. Anything removeble from the disc will work. If you're using post-its, make sure when you remove it, the information on the disc will not flake off.
Q: What information is needed when I label it?
A: Please include atleast the artist, date, and source information (if known). Other things you can include are Venues, Cities, and even notes.
Q: What do you mean by "using high quality discs"?
A: Often times, cheaper discs (with only a recordable side) can have the actual information part flake off, especially if there was a post-it or tape on it when you got it. Using brands like Sony, TDK, Memorex, Kodak, Fuji, and those other well-known brands is a sure bet of great quality and durability.
B & P TRADINGQ: How do I build my bootleg collection if I can't buy bootlegs?
A: Many traders are willing to do what are called "blank trades" with new traders. It is listed in their profile if they are willing to do so. Additionally, in the trading section of the messageboard on livehole.com (link) you will find a monthly B&P tree thread where CD and DVD bootlegs that are newly surfaced, or have not been widely circulated are being offered.
Q: What are "blank trades?"
A: Blank trading involves the person seeking the show sending either blank discs or blank discs plus return postage to the person that has the show. There are two types of blank trades, 2:1 and B&P. 2:1 trading means sending two blank discs to the person that has the CD(s) or DVD(s) you want for every one disc that you want them to copy. That person sends back a copy of the show and keeps the other disc to cover the cost of shipping. B&P means sending the number of blank discs equal to the number of discs you want copied plus return postage to the person that has the CD(s) or DVD(s). The return postage can be estimated by the traders or a postage-paid or stamped envelope can be included with the blanks.
Q: What is a B&P tree?
A: A B&P tree is a great way to get a show circulating to many people. The person who starts the tree is the "trunk." They offer the show to a certain number of people ("branches"). Those people, in turn, offer the show to certain number of people ("leaves"). The "leaves" may be people who don't have burners and cannot offer the show to others or if they do have burners they can choose to continue offering the show by B&P or they can offer another show up for B&P, becoming the trunk for that show.
This works very well as long as everyone who signs on to participate does their part. For example, if I open three slots for Hole"s 10/26/94 show and each of the people who receive the show from me offer at least three slots then at least twelve people end up with the show. If I offer five slots for that show and so does everyone that receives from me, thirty people end up with the show.
As stated, there will be a monthly B&P tree thread on the livehole.com message board, which will, we hope, have a few different trees for a few different shows on both CD and DVD. (Though until more members have DVD burners it is likely that DVD trees will just consist of "trunks" and "leaves.")
Q: What are the rules for the B&P trees on holelive.com?
1. You must be a registered user who is not on the Bad Traders List to participate in the B&P trees.
2. When you offer to start a B&P tree for a show, please post all available information about the show, including source and generation info if available.
3. When offering a show for B&P in the tree (as a trunk, branch, or leaf), you may ask traders to send a blank and up to one dollar if they are in the same country as you or two dollars if they are outside your country. This should adequately cover postage. However, it is preferred that the trader send a stamped or postage-paid envelope when possible. This is the most accurate way to pay for postage and the most fair to both parties. If there is a problem with either getting the currency needed or a postage-paid envelope, a 2:1 may be done instead of a B&P.
4. Artwork will NOT be traded with the CDs or DVDs in the B&P trees, so you should not expect to receive it.
5. Jewel cases should NOT be sent with CDs or DVDs for B&Ps. They crack easily and they increase shipping expenses. If you like to keep your discs in jewel cases, keep your jewel case. Mail your disc in a paper sleeve. You should also mail your disc in a padded envelope. Your disc will be sent back to you in the same envelope it is shipped in, so if you ship it in a plain envelope, it will be shipped back to you like that, and if the disc gets damaged, the person who copied the disc for you will not be responsible.
6. When you want a slot in a B&P tree, you MUST POST IN THE THREAD to claim your slot from a person, stating specifically that you would like a slot for "Name/Date of Show" from "User Name." Do NOT email or PM the person offering the show. This creates confusion because then it is not obvious to everyone how many slots are left.
7. After you have posted in the thread, it is your responsibility to PM or email the person offering the show for their address.
8. You must send the blank and postage WITHIN ONE WEEK OF POSTING YOUR REQUEST FOR THE SHOW IN THE THREAD. Likewise, the person offering the show must send the copied show back WITHIN ONE WEEK OF RECEIVING THE B&P. If packages are not sent quickly, within this time frame, then the entire tree is slowed down. All packages that are sent outside of the sender"s country must be sent airmail. If you claim a slot and the person you claim it from doesn't receive your blank and postage in a timely fashion, your slot can be opened up again and if you do this repeatedly you will be barred from future B&P trees. If you don"t send people B&Ps back in a timely fashion, you will also be barred from future B&P trees.
9. If you are a branch, once you receive a CD from the B&P, you must IMMEDIATELY offer it in the thread. You must open at least as many slots as the trunk offered. (If three slots were originally offered, you must offer three, but you are welcome to offer more.)
10. If you are a leaf and you have a burner, once you receive a CD from the B&P, you must IMMEDIATELY post in the thread and either offer at least as many slots as originally offered for that same CD or you must start a B&P tree for another show.
11. Every show that is offered in the B&P tree MUST be burned DAO and according to our CD Burning and Trading guidelines laid out in this FAQ. Before you offer a show, whether you are starting a tree or continuing one as a branch or a leaf, listen to it. Make sure that there are no TAO gaps between tracks or any other errors on your CD.
12. If the trunk makes generation information available for the disc they are offering, all those who receive the cd from them MUST keep track of the generation information (and all information given about a show), include the generation of their copy in their trading list, and pass on this information to the people they trade and B&P with.
13. Traders can choose to substitute a trade for a B&P. By this I mean, if User 2 asks User 1 for a slot in a B&P they are offering and User 1 sees something on User 2"s trading list that they are interested in, User 1 can ask User 2 to trade instead, however User 2 must still agree to offer the show received from User 1 as a B&P in the tree so there are no holes in the B&P tree.
14. By participating in the B&P you are agreeing that you will not sell any CD received in the B&P tree, not the copy you receive, not copies you make. CDs received from the B&P are for trading or doing B&Ps only!
15. Violation of these rules can result in being banned from future B&P trees and from this site.
Q: What are some alternatives to sending cash through the mail?
A: Try sending stamps, or enough blank cdrs to make up for the difference. Make sure you ask your trader first which one they prefer. Sending extra blanks is often referred to as "2:1 Trading", because 2 blanks are usually sent for every they use to burn.
ELECTRONIC TRADINGQ: How do I set up an electronic trade?
A: You can contact someone in our community that is willing to trade. Using FLAC or SHN files, you can usually exchange them through an Instant Message file share or by uploading them to a website.
Q: What are the advantages/disadvantages of an electronic trade?
A: Some advantages of electronic trades are: nearly instant trades, saving costs of CDrs, shipping, jewel cases, and padded mailers. Some disadvantages of electronic trades are: possible internet connection failures or technical difficulties, no hard copy of your disc
Q: What formats do I use to trade?
A: The formats recommended by this site to trade electronically are FLAC or SHN. MP3"s are NOT RECOMMENDED FOR TRADE. Please note which format your files are in, for future source generation.
Q: What is FLAC and SHN?
A: FLAC and SHN are file formats that allow for full quality of a file to be transferred when uploaded, downloaded, or converted. We do not condone MP3 trades and ask if you have a MP3 sourced disc, to keep it out of trading. FLAC stands for Free Lossless Audio Compression. The main reason FLAC is so popular with electronic trading communities is because the quality of the files is lossless. Our main mission of this website is to create a quality standard in the Hole trading community. We suggest FLAC to be used to prevent from loss of audio, while still maintaining decent sized files.
Q: What is wrong with MP3?
A: The MP3 format does not allow the lossless transferring of files. Everytime a MP3 is traded, it's quality decreases. Since Holelive.com is all about keeping the best quality-sourced recording in circulation, we do not allow trades of MP3s or MP3 sourced discs.
What should I include in my trade?
A: In your trade, include all tracks of the specified show or other media, as well as a text file (.txt " can be done in Notepad or Wordpad on Windows machines) stating all known source generation (including what formats your trade is in), sound quality, tracklisting, venue, and date information. Also, please include any comments of the show you have in your text file.
Q: Where can I find more information on these file formats and electronic trading?
A: Try visiting www.bittorrent.com, http://members.verizon.net/~vze4hc9b/, http://etree.org/whoweare.html, or FLAC for more information.
VIDEO TRADINGQ: What is the difference between PAL and NTSC formats for VHS?
A: NTSC is the standard American format for VCRs. Most of Canada has this format as well. PAL is the standard format for European and everywhere else. You will not be able to play a PAL format in your NTSC VCR properly and vice versa. Make sure you always check the trader"s format.
Q: What is the difference between SP, LP, and EP on videos?
A: SP = you record in 2 hour mode. LP = you record in 4 hour mode. SLP/EP = you record in 6 hour mode. Whatever mode the video is recorded in is how it will play. The quality of a video is maintained better when it is copied in SP mode HOWEVER if the original is not in SP mode then the quality isn"t maintained as well. We encourage you to trade videos recorded in SP form, especially if your original is in SP mode.
Q: Is DVD Trading preferable to video trading?
A: Yes. DVDs have better picture quality and since they are a digital format, they don"t lose quality when they are copied like videos do. They also don"t lose quality when they are repeatedly played like videotapes do. Transferring low generation videos to DVD is like using CD to preserve low generation or master analog tapes. As DVD burners come down in price and become more common, DVD trading has gotten bigger.
Q: What about VCD trading?
A: VCDs are discs which contain MPEG files. VCD trading is not allowed at holelive.com because VCDs are such a low quality media. Even though they are a digital format and there is no quality loss upon duplication, the resolution for a VCD is 320x240 whereas DVDs are 720x480.
Q: Can I convert VCD to DVD?
A: No. Because of the resolution of VCDs, once a show is converted to VCD it should stay in that format. There's no point at all in putting it on DVD.
Q: Does NTSC and PAL Format apply to DVDR trading?
A: Unlike official DVDs, which usually have a region code (Region 1, Region 2, etc), DVDRs are region-free. However what format a video is in when it is transferred and how it is transferred will affect how a DVD plays on your home DVD player. A PAL video puts out a PAL signal and if it is not transferred using a multi-region VCR, which can change that signal to a NTSC signal, it will only play on DVD players that play PAL DVDs. Now some North American DVD players can play PAL DVDs and you should check your owner's manual or look up information on your model online. Most computers with a DVD drive can play both PAL and NTSC DVDs using a program like WinDVD or Interactual Player, so DVDRs with a PAL signal are not useless to North Americans. However, almost all DVD players sold in PAL countries play both NTSC and PAL DVDs (these multi-standard players partially convert NTSC to a 60-Hz PAL (4.43 NTSC) signal). NTSC DVDRs play on 95% of DVD players worldwide, whereas PAL DVDRs play on very few DVD players outside of PAL countries, so it is best to transfer PAL videos using a multi-region VCR that can change the signal to NTSC or using software like Adobe After Effects and Canopus ProCoder, which do quite a good job of converting between PAL and NTSC at low cost, but they are only appropriate for the production environment (converting the video before it is encoded and put on the DVD). If you do have a DVDR for trade that is PAL encoded, you should note that with your generation information, so traders are aware of this.
Q: What is the difference between DVD+R and DVD-R?
A: DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs. DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs. Some DVD players play all types of DVDRs and some only play one or the other, you should consult your owner's manual or look up your model online to find out what yours plays. A DVD-R can be burned to a DVD+R disc and vice versa. If your DVD player only plays one or the other, you should note which type of DVDR (DVD-R or DVD+R) you need you prefer when you initiate the trade. It is also wise to ask the person you are trading with if they have a preference. Most newer computers and dvd players will play both types.
Q:What are the best DVDR brands?
A: TDK, Fuji, and Imation are considered to be some of the best brands. Again only use name brand DVDRs and be sure to check a trader's profile to see if they have a brand preference.
Q: What speed should I burn my DVDs at?
A: 2x. Again like with burning CDRs, you want to burn DVDs at the lowest possible speed to avoid errors, and for most burners this speed is 2x. Also when burning DVDs, check your software and make that the "on-the-fly" option is NOT checked.
Q: What are some good websites where I can get answers to more DVD related questions?
A: Videohelp.com and DVDDemystified.com
Q:What Hole shows are available on DVD?
A: In the Live Guide section of the site, you will find a DVD guide where all the Hole shows that have been transferred to DVD are listed along with their source information and any other important information. Screen shots of each show will be added as our resources increase. If a show is available on DVD, it will also be noted with the rest of the information about the show in its listing in the Live Guide.
Q: Are there any official Hole DVD releases?
A: Not at this time, no. Anything you see on ebay is a bootleg and we would recommend seeing if it is available in the trading community before purchasing it. If you do find a DVD bootleg that hasn't surfaced in the community yet on eBay and decide to buy it, we encourage you to "liberate it" by trading copies of it.
Q: I see that there aren't very many Hole shows transferred to DVD yet. How can I help?
A: Over the summer of 2004, two of the webmistresses of this site, Stephanie and Eryn, started a major video to DVD transfer project with Alex and Gary, two members of the livenirvana.com community. They are scouring the Hole video trading community for low generation videos (or as a last resort, very high quality unknown generation videos) to be transferred. They are also looking for more people with the equipment and the know-how to do quality DVD transfers so that the burden of transferring doesn't rest entirely on Alex and Gary. In this search, they came upon the few Hole shows that have been transferred to DVD, some of which were done by people in the Nirvana community and some that were being sold on eBay and will now be "liberated" and traded for free in the Hole community.
If you would like to help widen the scope of Hole DVD trading there are a few things you can do: Contact Stephanie or Eryn if you have any of the following things:
1. Low generation (or high quality unknown generation, though this is less preferable) Hole video (concerts, TV performances, interviews) that is not circulating yet or is a lower generation video than the one that has been transferred. Again, see the DVD Guide to see what is circulating.
2. A Hole DVD that is not listed in the DVD Guide.
3. The equipment and know-how to do quality transfers of Hole video to DVD.
Help will be rewarded! If you lend us a tape, you will get a copy of the DVD. If you lend us or a copy a DVD for us, we will work out a trade or something else in compensation. If you transfer a DVD, you can obviously make yourself a copy of it, and you will be credited as the DVD creator. If that glory isn't enough, we probably can work out a trade or something else in compensation.
One last way to help is to contact Stephanie if you have a DVD burner and would be interested in working with her to get Hole DVDs circulated in the community through B&P Trees.
Q: How can I find out what equipment I need and how to transfer video to DVD?
A: The three of us that run this website do not know enough about this process to explain it ourselves. We refer you instead to LiveNirvana. Jim Hirte was the first to use the DVD format in that community and he explains how he does it here in the technical introduction and production sections.
SELLING ON HOLELIVE.COMWhat Can I NOT sell?
A: Any of the following items CANNOT be sold using this website:
+ Any bootlegs copied on CDr. (Please note that these are different from commercial 'silver disc' bootlegs. Selling new/used commercial bootlegs is permitted though selling CDR copies of them is not. Refer to "Source and Generation Information" section of this FAQ for more information on commercial silver disc bootlegs.)
+ Official CDs copied on CDr. (For example, you may sell your used copy of Pretty on the Inside, however you MAY NOT sell a CDR copy of it)
+ Videos copied or dubbed, including concerts, interviews, television performances, officially released movies or documentaries etc.
+ DVDrs or VCDs, including concerts, interviews, television performances, officially released movies or documentaries etc.
+ MP3s downloaded onto a CD.
+ Any MP3s.
+ Scans or copies of any original copyrighted artwork (i.e. album artwork like Live Through This, magazine articles, or photography by someone other than yourself).
+ Obviously alcohol, drugs, firearms, etc.
Anything that is a bootleg, a copy you have made of such above listed items, or an illegal item cannot be sold.
FAILURE TO ADHERE TO THESE SELLING RULES ARE GROUNDS FOR TERMINATION TO YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THUS, A POSSIBILITY THAT YOU WILL BE BANNED FROM THIS WEBSITE. PLEASE BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS WHEN USING THIS COMMUNITY.
What Can I NOT Trade or Sell?
A: Because this is a community devoted to circulating the highest quality live performances the following formats will not be allowed AT ALL for trading or selling on this site.
+ MP3 sourced bootlegs. (Except in the rare case that an MP3 source is the only source circulating for a live show.)
+ VCDs. (See the "Source and Generation Information" section of this FAQ for an explanation about VCDs and MP3 sourced shows.)
+ TAO cds. (See the explanation of DAO and TAO recording.)
What CAN I sell?
Fan-made bootleg artwork, DIY items that are not portrayed as "official merchandise" or a reproduction of copyrighted materials (i.e. selling a handmade canvas Hole patch is permitted as long as you notify all prospective buyers that your product is handmade and therefore, not "official merchandise"), any commercial merchandise (i.e. a band t-shirt from Hot Topic, new or used official CDs, vinyls, stickers, posters, postcards, commercially-produced, silver disc bootlegs, etc.), new or used clothing, accessories, make-up, books, new or used videos or DVDs, computer accessories and programs (official, legal copies ONLY), zines, clippings, magazines, anything that is not an unauthorized copy of copyrighted materials.
A Note about zines and DIY items:
A: You are only permitted to promote and sell your own zines and DIY items. You CANNOT sell or re-sell zines and DIY items (including fan-made bootleg artwork) that are not your own works.
What is FAN MADE bootleg artwork?
A: It is artwork that was put together by fans for non-commercial bootlegs. This is artwork that a fan created themselves, and therefore we are allowing it to be sold as a DIY item.
What are DIY items?
A: DIY (Do-It-Yourself) items are homemade crafts. They can range from clothing items to rubberstamps to self-distributed artwork, writing, and recordings. On this site these items will most likely be band-related. For example, Hole or Courtney Love magnets or key chains that you made yourself can be sold on the board as long as you do not market them as an official item. We are allowing this because we encourage fans to come up with brilliant, creative, cost-effective ways to pay tribute to and promote their favorite bands.
Why can't I sell bootlegs anymore? I could on www.kittyradio.com/www.hole.com.
A: Because we are neither site.
We are trying to get away from what has so long been the Hole trading community. Because the Hole bootleg trading community has been known for selling bootlegs we have been looked down upon by other trading communities. It"s time to change and organize this great and dedicated community. The three of us that started this site are all artists ourselves and we see the point that has been made by so many other bootleg communities: What right do we have to make a profit off of someone else's art? Additionally, a focus on trading and B&P trading makes the best quality shows available to as many fans that want them, which is our mission.
Can I only trade Hole bootlegs and Hole items here?
A: No, you can trade anything you want that is legal, reasonable, and does not violate the guidelines, and you can sell anything that does not violate the guidelines here. In fact, we hope that the changes we are trying to instill in the Hole bootleg trading community will make our community more attractive to other trading communities and a wide variety of live video and audio will be traded on this site.
HOLELIVE.COM'S LIVEGUIDEQ: What information can I find in the Hole Live Guide?
A: The Hole Live Guide catalogs details on every circulating bootleg of a performance or interview done by Hole or a member of Hole in a Post-Hole project. The information we list includes date, location, venue, setlist, show length, a ranking of known sources, and a note as to whether the show is available on video or DVD. We will also include fan-shot pictures of the show when available. To donate your pictures from a Hole or Hole-related show, contact email@example.com. We are also working to write up transcripts of the between song banter for each show. If you have or would like to type up the between song banter for a show, contact firstname.lastname@example.org.
We rank each known source by considering factors such as sound quality, lowest known generation, and completeness. The sources will be identified by lowest known generation and bootleg title when a title has been given. All errors will be noted for each source, as well as whether it is known to be complete, and the sound quality will be rated.
Q: How are the bootlegs organized in the guide?
A: Bootlegs are organized by date. In the Live Guide section of the site, you will find a menu broken down by year. Listed beneath the years, you will find a DVD guide where all the Hole shows that have been transferred to DVD are listed along with their source information and any other important information. Screen shots of each show will be added as our resources increase. If a show is available on DVD, it will also be noted with the rest of the information about the show in its listing in the Live Guide.
Q: What does the sound quality rating number mean?
A: All bootlegs are rated on a scale of 100, with 100 being the best soundboard recording. The lower the number, the less listenable the sound quality is, perhaps it is muffled, or has a lot of static or sound drop-outs. Major errors will be noted specifically.
Q: What does lowest generation mean/have to do with it?
A: See the Source Information FAQ.
Q: What about unsurfaced Hole shows?
A: In the "Live Guide" section of the site, you will find a link to a list of unsurfaced shows. This is where we will list all known dates that Hole (or a member of Hole) played that have not surfaced as a live recording yet. Incomplete shows will also be listed here with a note that they are only partially surfaced. These shows are all greatly sought after in the Hole community and if you have a recording of the show or access to a recording, please report it here.
Q: Where can I report a correction to the information you have listed?
A: In the Live Guide section of the site, you will find a link of where to report corrections/additions. There is also a forum on our Messageboard dedicated to corrections!